Posts by Doubting Bro

13

Change and Challenges Facing the Watchtower

by eric356 in

some of you may have seen my previous thread of almost the same title.

i've thought a bit more and formatted my thoughts into a longer essay.

change and challenges facing the watchtower.

Doubting Bro

Eric,

Nicely done. You may want to touch on dfing and how that has stifled creative thought and the crisis of leadership. As the case with any top-down driven organization, those in the lower rungs may have many ideas that could lead to sucessful changes however these ideas are ignored and those that persist are often threatened with dfing. Dfing and the resulting extreme shunning also keeps marginal JWs from leaving which helps prop up their statistics. The poor treatment of ex members has also contributed to anti-JW websites and literature which has an effect on recruiting in developed countries.

It's interesting because I think some of these issues are similar to what the LDS faced. They took a different route by encouraging education, making their preaching (which is still one of the identifying brand marks of the LDS) something that is done for a limited duration for members, and engaging in lots of charitable activities. They are doing well financially, have strong retention rates and IMO most importantly for a religion, still keep a very high level of control on their members. They have kept almost all of their wacky doctrine and are not considered a mainstream religion especially by the majority of Christians.

Your thoughts on preaching and publishing are spot on. I had a visit from a couple of Mormons not long ago and I didn't realize they don't actually carry the BOM door to door anymore. They handed out a tract with an 800 number and e-mail address (I think, can't remember for sure on that piece) that you could contact if you wanted a copy. I bet that they have figured out that its much cheaper to mail out the books that publish a bunch that may end up sitting in some missionary's closet unused.

Overall, I agree with your conculsion that they will be around for a long time absent any black swan sort of event. They are just too big and too wealthy (look at all that NYC real estate they still own) to collapse anytime soon.

21

Unbelievable WT Oct 15/2010 2nd study article

by bobld in

"our viewpoint may be distorted or limited" par 16 "mosaic law-he(god) did not enforce his own law"wtf.. so the gb/fds will tell us their distorted viewpoint.they say law given to imperfect judges who could not read hearts.yet the gb/fds says they can by their pharisaic laws and rules ie child abuse/shunning/etc.. why did god give the mosaic law if they could not read hearts.oh it was ok for the israelites to kill some people for adultery/murder but not david because they could not read his heart.wtf does it matter if he was sorry and repentent were not the others just as sorry and repentent.. b.

Doubting Bro

A loving God wouldn't allow an innocent man to suffer. The adultry wasn't nearly as bad as the murder. Couldn't God have told Uriah that he should sleep with his wife as David had originally planned to cover up the pregency? Why did poor Uriah have to die?

And the census took so many lives, as if those innocent people meant nothing.

It is very difficult for many to reconcile the God of the Old Testament with Jesus message of love and peace.

BTW - I thought of Blondie when the David example was used right away. It's almost as if the WT writer directed it to her!

37

Attention Born in Lurkers

by stuckinamovement in

jw
friends

do you feel that something has changed within god's organization?

have you noticed that in the past several years there has been a more authoritarian spirit displayed in the publications and from the platform?

i am in the beginning stages of a fade away and wanted to express my thoughts.

Doubting Bro

Great post and a bttt

25

I listened to the meeting over the phone with my grandmother. This religion is nuts!!

by miseryloveselders in

jw
friends

my grandmother has been a little ill, and had to be put in a facility temporarily.

she should be getting out sometime next week.

i'm not particularly close with her, and that probably has a lot to do with my father.

Doubting Bro

Interesting experience and I'm in complete agreement. I had the same sort of epiphany while in service not that long ago. I listened while the person I was working with said he was going to share something encouraging with a household and then read a scripture in Rev that talked about the world being destroyed! The household actually laughed at him. I just looked at my feet because I realized just how crazy this whole thing is.

You're a great story teller and had me laughing at my desk a few times!

69

KS Blood-Handout s-55-e (PDF)!!!

by yknot in

we interrupt your forum posting for this 'just in' item...... it appears an elder has not locked his doctor's bag and a member of the conscious class has brazeningly swiped & scanned a copy of the s-55e.

(((thank you anonymous cc jw!.

for the purpose of our bethel audience i want to assure you no actual elder was willingly involved in the obtaining of this scan.. link: http://www.sendspace.com/file/mnf7a0.

Doubting Bro

Sorry, I meant that I thought this was already the HLC's instructions and that by getting this info into the hands of the local elders, it would save the HLC time having to discuss every situation involving a minor child.

I totally agree that this would be damning information to present to a judge. Disingenuous indeed!

69

KS Blood-Handout s-55-e (PDF)!!!

by yknot in

we interrupt your forum posting for this 'just in' item...... it appears an elder has not locked his doctor's bag and a member of the conscious class has brazeningly swiped & scanned a copy of the s-55e.

(((thank you anonymous cc jw!.

for the purpose of our bethel audience i want to assure you no actual elder was willingly involved in the obtaining of this scan.. link: http://www.sendspace.com/file/mnf7a0.

Doubting Bro

This goes along with conversations I've had with someone I know on the HLC. We were talking about young kids (not "mature minors") and he described trying to fight blood for a young one as "pissing in the wind". He's right, they can get court orders easily and quickly and the only thing the parents get is legal bills (provided there's a non-WT lawyer involved), headaches and news coverage. He said that as long as the parent's objections are noted, they have done the best they could.

Now, maybe this person disagrees with the WTS stance on blood and is a reformer. I just don't get that sense at all given what I know about him. He's also pretty moderate as far as elders with big circuit/district responsibilities go but I don't see him as a liberal. So, maybe that's what his personal ideas are but he presented them to me as the official HLC party line.

I really think this handout is simply to save the HLC time from getting involved in every case when a young child needs an operation.

BTW - the sentence about not talking about the resurrection hope just proves how deceitful the WTS wants their followers to be. So, on the one hand, the main arguement as to why JWs don't worry about withholding life saving treatment is because God can bring the child back anyway and it's more important to abstain from "blood". On the other hand, don't talk about that main doctrine?

69

KS Blood-Handout s-55-e (PDF)!!!

by yknot in

we interrupt your forum posting for this 'just in' item...... it appears an elder has not locked his doctor's bag and a member of the conscious class has brazeningly swiped & scanned a copy of the s-55e.

(((thank you anonymous cc jw!.

for the purpose of our bethel audience i want to assure you no actual elder was willingly involved in the obtaining of this scan.. link: http://www.sendspace.com/file/mnf7a0.

Doubting Bro

Thanks so much ynot and your source!! Fantastic, this handout is available before the elders in my area even go to the KM school.

I didn't pick up anything new but cerainly there is no softening of the position. To think I would have once let someone I love die because of what a stupid religion told me to do shakes me to the core.

104

KM (Elder School) Brief Highlights

by XBEHERE in

jw
friends

besides the usual drivel there were a couple interesting things.

1. an entire 1 hour discourse on helping our children become little innocent martyrs for the wt via.

their flawed and unreasonable blood doctrine.

Doubting Bro

Amen, MLE.

Sorry to keep hovering over this thread, but the other comments SIAM made are also notable. The admission that there have never been more problems within the congos? That stands in stark contrast to their spiritual paradise teaching. Now, admitting that to the circuit elders isn't nearly as big of a deal as announcing it to the r&f but how much do you want to bet that that comment will find it's way into local parts?

If the GB knows that there local reps are under pressure, why can't they see that it's because of them? It's the GB's directives that are causing the average JW to rebel. Now, that's spread to their appointed elders/ms.

I know high control religions react to the loss of control by tightening their grip. It's clear here thats what is happening. I'm not surprised that they're blaming the locals for all the problems when in reality, they should take a look at the culture they've created and do something about it.

This is the reason why I don't think reform is possible because they refuse to look in the mirror as a source of the problems.

104

KM (Elder School) Brief Highlights

by XBEHERE in

jw
friends

besides the usual drivel there were a couple interesting things.

1. an entire 1 hour discourse on helping our children become little innocent martyrs for the wt via.

their flawed and unreasonable blood doctrine.

Doubting Bro

SIAM - I agree with what's your saying. I remember the last KM school (I was still an elder at that time) when they the new rules on porn viewing there was some very inconsistant ways the new rules were applied. And, a letter was sent out clarifying how the rules were to work. So, I think you're right about them coming up with new instructions.

But, it sounds pretty clear cut in a lot of ways.

I know it sounds somewhat harsh of me to want this to result in the elder I'm talking about being removed and its honestly pretty bad of me to think this way, but my wife is adamant that the WTS is merely pointing out the pitfalls of going off to school and is not anti-education. She also didn't believe me when I told her an elder/ms could lose their position if their kid went to college.

If I could point to a real life, local example of an uber-JW being forced to choose between his kids education and his position, I think it would help her see just how controlling the religion is. I hope he makes the right choice but you never know. Again, I realize that there are other peoples future at stake here but I'm not the one coming up with these crazy rules. Just trying to use them to my advantage to make a point.

Sounds like the reversal of the pre-92 (or whatever year it was) education stance is complete.

104

KM (Elder School) Brief Highlights

by XBEHERE in

jw
friends

besides the usual drivel there were a couple interesting things.

1. an entire 1 hour discourse on helping our children become little innocent martyrs for the wt via.

their flawed and unreasonable blood doctrine.

Doubting Bro

SIAM - thanks for posting those questions. You know, they are really pretty subjective. When I think about the elders in my congo that currently have kids in college, I could see the BOE saying yes to pretty much everything. One in particular is very conservative with the exception of sending his kids to college. His son graduated a couple of years ago and is a MS. He has 2 daughters in school now.

It sounds like they are going to be reviewing his "qualifications". Now, he may decide to step down as a result of this part. He's tried before for reasons that show him to be very conservative (tearful confessions over things that weren't that big of a deal). But, if he doesn't, I can tell you that this BOE will not remove him based on this. What happens when the CO comes may be a different thing but the current CO is an adult convert who I believe has a college education.

I'll bet the application of this rule will be inconsistant.